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MARCH/APRIL 2012
RE: DAK TO ISSUE
These two articles were terrific. I was with the 15 Engr. Co. (LE) during the November 1967 attack and the 1968 Tet offensive. After 45 years, I finally found out the big picture about all the campaigns in the DakTo area. Both authors did a great job putting all the pieces together.
Leon Messina
By Email
WE DESERVED BETTER
I just read the latest issue of The VVA Veteran. I looked at the map of Dak To and it brought back many memories. I was not at Dak To during the battles covered in The Veteran. You name the places listed on the map and we were there, albeit in late 1961-62. All the villages in the area – whether Montagnard or others not even listed – knew us and our purpose because we spent time there. What we did was classified Top Secret and probably would not be acknowledged to this day.
It is with a heavy heart that I read the article. The powers that be in Washington would not listen to the experts on the ground and, as far as I’m concerned, ignored our plans. I was fortunate to listen to ideas presented in highly classified meetings in Saigon with Col. Frank Serong and Lt. Col. William Mann of the Australian Army who were advisors. As far as I’m concerned, there would not have been a Dak To or a Tet Offensive where so many American lives were lost due to leadership issues within and outside the theater of operations once they made the decision to commit combat units and begin ground and air operations.
We were operating just like the SOFs are operating today. It was working and we were winning. The names of seventeen of my brothers-in-arms are inscribed on The Wall. They were U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines. We were a small group and we took care of each other. I stood on the tarmac at Bien Hoa AB in February 1962 to say farewell to two Army and six Air Force servicemen who were shot down.
I will never forget what the chaplain said: “Will these men have died in vain? I hope not.”
A day doesn’t go by but I take a moment to think about the buddies who did not make it back. God bless all Vietnam veterans. We deserved better than we received for what we gave.
Lou Shaup
By Email
A FEROCIOUS FIGHT
While I found John Prados’s article, “Dak To: One Hell of a Fight,” not to be inaccurate, it did not give true justice to the fierce violence in fighting those battles at Dak To.
To appreciate the fierceness more, consider that certain units of the 1st Brigade, 4th Inf. Div., as well as some units of the 173rd Airborne received the Presidential Unit Citation. Some individual members received Medals of Honor.
A tidbit about Hill 875: Prados said, “the Sky Soldiers of 4/503 gradually fought their way toward the crest…Col. Johnson stopped his lead company short, because its flanking cohorts had been held up by the enemy…on November 23, when two companies of the 1st Battalion, 12th Infantry provided an assist. The Sky Soldiers reached the summit.” In fact, two different units simultaneously assaulted the crest of Hill 875 that day. Elements of the 503rd went up the North Slope. Elements of the 1st Bn., 12th Inf., 4th Inf. Div. assaulted the summit by way of the South Slope. The two forces linked up on top about an hour and a half after the attack started.
Harry Dilkes
New Brunswick, New Jersey
NOT AT LIBERTY
Thirty-four American Navy personnel were killed, an additional 171 were injured, and an expensive intelligence ship was destroyed off the coast of Egypt in international waters on June 8, 1967. The virtually defenseless ship was attacked repeatedly by Israeli fighter jets using 30-mm cannons and napalm. Israeli torpedo boats ripped a massive hole in her side. Breaking faith with all American servicemen, the Johnson administration commanded the survivors of the U.S.S. Liberty not to speak of that terrible ordeal and forced those men into lives suffocated by PTSD.
An historian, however, is not supposed to be bound by a gag order. So I was surprised to read in the January/February issue Mr. Gorenberg’s rich and detailed exposition of American-Israeli relations during the Vietnam War period without finding even a passing reference to the Liberty. How is that possible? That omission has long been part of the sad history of the Liberty and her crew.
It would have been very interesting to read the Israeli perspective. It seems that I did.
John Harris
By Email
MENTORING YOUNG WARRIORS
At our Chapter 689 Annual Banquet in Angola, I commented that it broke my heart when our newest associate member joined us. This young man is 22 years old, a Marine who served honorably and is still technically on active duty.
He’s a good kid – intelligent, articulate, clean-cut – and serving a life sentence. How does this happen? It happens when a culture of abandonment takes hold. It happens when we older veterans fail to step up to mentor today’s young warriors.
This experience prompted Incarcerated Chapter 689 to begin another intensive Veterans Against Drugs and Violence program. Those of us who have lived for 55 and 65 years with our problems with drugs and violence owe it to the youth of today and today’s generation of warriors to live the VVA creed: “Never again….”
Bill Kissinger
Angola, Louisiana
FAILED ATTRITION POLICY
Thank you for the excellent book review by Marc Leepson of Westmoreland: The General Who Lost Vietnam. Leepson didn’t mention names when he wrote, “he [Westmoreland] feuded with the U.S. Marine Corps brass over strategy and tactics.” Both Marine Generals Krulak and Walt disagreed with the war of attrition strategy. Krulak went over Westmoreland’s head directly to President Johnson, but was overruled.
Afterward, the Marine Corps Combined Action Platoons continued to operate by understaffing operational infantry units by 10 percent because Westmoreland refused additional manpower requests to staff the CAP units. Even with reduced numbers, by 1969 Marine CAP units were effective in reducing enemy operations in I Corps and the individual unit loss ratios were lower for the Marine Corps than for the Army.
Many have made the case that if Westmoreland had adopted the pacification strategy instead of the failed attrition policy the outcome might have been different. We won’t know for sure. All of this has been documented in Gen. Krulak’s First to Fight, Lt. Col. Corson’s The Betrayal, and two of my books, Civic Action: Marines Fighting a Different War in Vietnam and Year of the Monkey.
Gene Hays
Oxford, Mississippi
BLAMING WESTY
Having reviewed this same title myself, I naturally read Mr. Leepson’s review of Westmoreland with great interest. In general, I agree with his conclusions, but I also feel some observations are in order. Author Lewis Sorley, in effect, ratted out his boss after the latter’s death, thus not giving him a chance to respond. In 1989 I interviewed Gen. Westmoreland for an hour after having served under him in Vietnam and also having read his 1976 memoirs.
I was impressed that Westmoreland didn’t put any blame on Presidents Kennedy and Johnson when he well might have, but instead put all the blame on his own shoulders. Both Mr. Sorley and Mr. Leepson give those two commanders-in-chief a pass on their own responsibilities for the conduct of the war. Basically, I conclude that Westy told President Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara what they wanted to hear, and vice versa. In the first published volume of LBJ’s taped conversations, he predicted that the war would not be won and that we should get out in 1965, but went in with ground troops anyway. After the fact, McNamara admitted that he, too, had been wrong, so there’s plenty of blame to go around.
Have we learned our lesson? We have not, and terms like “hearts and minds” are still being used in today’s wars, as they will no doubt bein the future. We didn’t get it right in Vietnam.
Two points that both author and reviewer also ignore are these: First, just like in the Spanish Civil War that preceded World War II, Vietnam served as the testing ground for both sides for strategies, tactics, and weaponry that might one day be used on a larger scale, but, fortunately, weren’t. Second, what would really have thrown our entire war effort into a cocked hat was the entry of the People’s Republic of China into the war on the ground, as happened in Korea. We can thank our lucky stars that that didn’t happen.
Blaine Taylor
Towson, Maryland
THAT SAME OLD LINE
“Never again will one generation of veterans allow the government to abandon the next generation of veterans” doesn’t do it for me, either. But I agree wholeheartedly with Patrick Burke in his assertion that when we use “Never again will one generation of veterans abandon another,” we are wimping out against a former generation of warriors.
We certainly cannot blame World War II and Korean vets for not comprehending the true significance of what was happening in Vietnam. They were being lied to by the Commander-in-Chief, generals, and the press and were never given the truth about what we were going through over there. We were sucked into the same political-war industry crapola that our brothers and sisters are being sucked into today in the Middle East, with that same patriotic line of bull.
Meanwhile, we were being led around and lied to by generals padding body counts for their own glory. May they rot in hell. McNamara, Johnson, Westmoreland, the general staff, war industry profiteers, and politicians were all men without honor. We paid the price.
Michael J. Burke
Veterans for Truth in Military Recruiting
Atlanta, Georgia
BOTH SIDES NOW
Regarding Patrick Burke’s historically correct revision of VVA’s founding principle in the Jan./Feb. Letters, I have two opinions.
I agree that the Vietnam War was lost in Washington, D.C. Evidence of this is the fact that in the spring of 1972, U.S. naval vessels were ordered to be part of a blockade of Haiphong Harbor to prevent any ship from entering the harbor and resupplying the North.This blockade ran for twenty-eight days. Then a radio message was received to lift the blockade, and the bad guys were being resupplied before the Navy even got out of sight. So yes, it was Washington’s fault.
But when I returned home after my enlistment was over, I was sitting in a veterans’ club one evening having supper. The commander of that organization questioned me as to which service I had been in, and I replied the Navy. He then asked me where I had been, and I replied Vietnam. He replied that I did not really belong in this particular veterans’ club since “you didn’t win your war.”
There you have both sides of the coin.
So I think VVA’s founding principle should be: “Never again will one generation of veterans allow the government – or anyone else – to abandon the next generation of veterans.”
Roger L. Kopf
By Email
HELPING VETERANS
I was so moved by the letter bashing our national motto, “Never again will one generation of veterans abandon another,” that I felt I needed to step out of my deeply seated position in the Silent Veterans Majority and support this position. I, too, believe that we are pointing the finger at the wrong parties (past generations of veterans) in this childish, crybaby, pick-up-my-toys-and-go-home negative motto. We all know that the real culprits in our mistreatment, when returning home, were the politicians, war protesters, media, and general public (following like sheep). These were mostly non-veterans.
I would like to start a movement within our organization to strike this negative motto and replace it with a much more positive motto: “Veterans Helping Veterans.”
Gary Cranor
Beaumont, Texas
THE TIES THAT BIND
Patrick Burke’s recent letter attempts to make a case for changing the VVA founding principle to “Never again will one generation of veterans allow the government to abandon the next generation of veterans.” He believes, based on the support that he received from his dad and uncles, that this would be more historically correct. I disagree, and I would guess that what I went through is more in line with VVA’s current motto.
On returning home from Vietnam, I attempted to join the local American Legion post. Not having the decency to meet with me within the confines of the post’s own facility, a representative asked if I could meet him in a local bar. Also, meeting with us was a friend who was a two-tour veteran of Vietnam. He bought us a beer and informed us that the post had decided that they didn’t recognize Vietnam as a real war so we weren’t qualified to join the American Legion. This decision was made by World War II and Korean War veterans. The reception at the VFW hall wasn’t any warmer.
Even in 1979 when I had applied for a state government job the individual who interviewed me (a WWII Navy veteran) told me that he didn’t think it was right I was able to check the five-point veteran’s preference box on my application because “that wasn’t any kind of real war,” and we weren’t any kind of real soldiers because we had lost the damn thing.
As a footnote, let me say that recently, while out on a local hiking trail, I photographed a young family, using their camera. The father pointed to my olive drab baseball hat and said, “C.I.B.?” He was making reference to the Combat Infantryman Badge embroidered on the front. His wife said, “Isn’t that just like the one you have, honey?”
Handshakes ensued and the greetings of “What unit were you in?” and “How about you?” We walked the rest of the trail out together, the C.I.B. bond between us strong. He had been in the Army for eight years and had done two combat tours. I let him know that he would always have our support.
Patrick Lines
Seaside, Oregon
WE THE PEOPLE
Like many of us who were dissatisfied with the way the war ended in Vietnam, Patrick Burke wants to blame the government, whereas the blame has to go to the people who elect the members of the government. Support can be defined in different ways. The general public was tired of the Vietnam War – especially with all the dissension going on in our country at the time – so its continuation wasn’t supported. Much like the Korean War, it didn’t affect everyone like World War II did. No rationing, no scrap drives, no war bond drives, etc. Remember all the patriotic movies of that era? Most of the movies about Vietnam, until recently, played on the stereotypes of misfit soldiers.
I think the media should take some of the blame, too, for picking out parts of the war that they wanted to dramatize. Showing soldiers, Marines, and sailors doing good things was not a priority.
Like Mr. Burke I, too, was supported by my family in large part. I got letters and care packages from both my brothers (who served in the Army of Occupation in Germany in the ’50s) and one of my sisters. My infantry division was also sent supplies from a Cincinnati citizens group with the motto, “Cincinnati Supports the Fourth,” which I greatly appreciated.
However, I never got so much as a postcard from local veteran groups. Not even a note from the World War II vet whose children I hung out with. By and large we were ignored by the older generation. They ignored the Korean War veterans, too.
There was not even a Korean War memorial in our small city to honor the local men who died in that war until VVA Chapter 377 had one built for the Vietnam and Korean War dead. Names have since been added from the Gulf War also.
Perhaps this was only my own experience but from what I’ve heard I believe this was part of a general malaise that occurred throughout the country. My chapter and other veterans groups have sent cards and packages to the new generation of service people, as well as invitations to join. This can be attributed to Vietnam Veterans of America’s founding principle, our generation of vets who have become active in the various vet groups, and in large part to the direct attack on our country on 9/11.
Mr. Burke is right that we can’t sit back and wait for the government. We the people have to make sure they don’t cut veterans benefits and cut our defense spending in this dangerous world we live in. We must always remember that “Freedom isn’t free.”
Paul Pagliaro
Ithaca, New York
A PERFECT MOTTO
Patrick Burke’s letter in the January/February issue expressed his shame of VVA due to its motto. He felt it was based on incorrect history. I’m certain the experiences of many Vietnam veterans went into the scripting of the motto. The words ring true for my own experience, which I would like to relate for Mr. Burke and other doubters.
First and foremost, if anyone doubts that the politicians who formulated our government policy weren’t veterans of World War II and Korea themselves, I think they’d be mistaken. Not all of them, but many were. Also, like Burke, I had relatives who supported my military service. Both my parents were veterans of WWII, as were two of my uncles. They supported me and three of my siblings who served during Vietnam.
When I became a member of the Malden Police Dept. (outside Boston) in 1977, older officers who were veterans discouraged the few Vietnam veterans from talking about our experiences. They said we weren’t even in a “real war.” Neither of the two VFW posts encouraged offering membership to us until their membership dwindled due to deaths in the ’80s.
Another memorable experience for me was attending the annual 4th of July parade in neighboring Everett. While watching with family and relatives, some expressed their dislike of Vietnam veterans being in the parade with the other veterans groups.
Unfortunately, this was the sentiment of the times in urban America, whether others or Mr. Burke want to believe it. It was only when established veterans groups needed us to maintain their membership that the thinking changed.
The VVA may not be perfect as an organization, but neither are its members nor was the war that binds us. Unfortunately, its motto is perfect.
Charles MacKay
Malden, Massachusetts
STILL DYING
On The Wall in Washington, D.C., are listed the names of over 58,000 men and women who died or are missing in action. Those who died and countless others who were wounded in Vietnam received the Purple Heart. But what about the veterans who came down with illnesses from exposure to herbicides such as Agent Orange?
They were not sprayed by the VC or the NVA, but were sprayed by our own forces in which our government supplied the chemicals. Did the U.S. government know if the chemicals were deadly to plant life and to people as well? Let’s face it: Humans and plant life are both living things on this planet.
The men and women who have died from the effects of Agent Orange far outnumber those listed on The Wall. Many are still coming down with illnesses.
Someone asked me a long time ago, “Why don’t they have a Wall for those who have died since the war ended?” I replied that we are still dying and there isn’t a wall big enough to list all those names.
Peter McAskill
By Email
THE ROCK, ’71-73
I was stationed at Machinato, Okinawa, with the 2nd Logistical Command. I worked at T-852 and the depot. I was with A Co., Maintenance, 705th and with USARBCO Spc. Troops – both in direct support to Vietnam.
Agent Orange was sprayed on the compounds. It was sprayed around the fences, Building T-852, and the disabled truck storage area beside the Pacific where we walked guard duty. We were told that if it wasn’t sprayed, the habu snakes would nest in grass clumps and in the trucks and generators stored on the ground. DDT was also sprayed around the barracks.
During the last part of my tour, AO and other chemicals were moved. I don’t know how much or where it went. Some of the guys from A Co. were selected to help move it (Operation Red Hat). Even though we were two meritorious units, we did not get recognized for our work like other units from Thailand. We did the same work.
Lee Wolfe
Dunmore, West Virginia
PRAYERS & LETTERS
I’m a VVA member of Pathfinder Chapter 848 at Crossroads Correctional Center. We’ve had a chapter here since 1998. Even though we are incarcerated, we do a lot to help our veterans. We have several fundraisers a year to raise money for local veterans. Since some of us don’t have resources on veterans affairs, your magazine helps keep us informed. Keep up the good work. Don’t forget about us incarcerated vets. We need your prayers and letters.
William Watkins
Cameron, Missouri
JEALOUSY ISSUES
Robert Daumiller didn’t like last issue’s cover. No big deal, just move on. But then he attacked me.
My vest has a twelve-inch VVA life member patch on the back. In front, it has my buck sergeant stripes that I am very proud of. I led men in combat with stripes just like them. Also, my unit patches are on my vest. We killed a lot of the enemy and saved thousands of Americans. I was a Section Chief on an 8-inch Howitzer. We were located up by the Cambodian border.
Pinned on the front of my vest are my original Bronze Star and my two Army Commendation medals with V Devices. I earned them with a lot of pain, blood, sweat, fear, and anger. My position was overrun twice.
People I meet on the street, in my town, and in other towns now thank me for my service. No one has ever said I look insane.
I will not give up the medals and patches which I earned to please someone like you, Robert, and I’m sure others feel the same and are glad that you are not going to re-up. The quicker you leave this fine organization, the better off it will be. Also get some help. You have real jealousy issues to deal with.
Gary Minkler
Roseburg, Oregon
FORGOTTEN FAMILY
I have to speak about my true disappointment after reading The VVA Veteran that my older brother brought for me to read. He does this because he knows I am a collector of war memorabilia, specifically from World War II and Vietnam. He has brought me many pictures, booklets, and other assorted trinkets he had from two tours in the Vietnam War. He knows how proud I’ve always been of him and all the other soldiers who have fought wars. He knows how disgusted we both get when someone tells stories as if they were in the war when they really weren’t. He and any other true vet know within seconds if these are lies.
For some reason this never seems to flatter. If they could see it that way it may become easier to stomach. I can tell by watching when my brother talks to a true brother vet. I see faraway looks they get and the excitement of telling each other their stories. Being close to my brother’s age, I and many other family members of vets carry a burden of guilt for never having to go through the trauma of this war.
Herein is the basis of my disappointment with yours and several other books and stories I have read. You never speak of the family members who were at home going through the deathly fear and horrible nightmares of our loved ones being thousands of miles away from home. Every phone call was sure to be a call telling us we had lost our dear brother. It was common to have dreams every night of what the feeling was going to be like when we would be told of his death. We felt that feeling every second he was gone and in a country of hell.
I can only speak for myself. I can’t imagine what my parents felt, especially my mother, who was so very close to her first of five sons. You all had families who missed, loved, and dealt with these fears every second you were gone to war. You did not go through this war alone.To this day, we too deal with PTSD caused by the overwhelming fear of not only losing our loved ones, but how they might die. Please don’t be so narrow as to believe soldiers were the only ones traumatized. To this day, every minute spent with my brother is precious. He is dealing with many symptoms from Agent Orange, and still he is a volunteer at the VA helping others get their benefits. I call him a hero and, like most of you, he won’t accept the title.
I think a great option for families of vets who always have and always will want to show our appreciation, while giving us a chance to help and feel involved, might be to sell shirts, hats, bracelets, and whatever, saying how proud we are, how much we care and honor our vets, and what the families went through. I believe this would be a great market with most or all proceeds going to help vets in need. I feel that Vietnam veterans are starting to be thanked and appreciated as they should be. Late for sure, but honored just the same. Not just words, but from the heart. Thank you for your duty to our country.
Roy Montoya
Tucson, Arizona
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